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View Full Version : Zen and the search for more power... Phase 3: Camshafts



JoeT
01-29-2004, 11:32 PM
Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion based on the experiences I went through with my car. I have all the records and data as well as dyno charts to suppliment these claims and are always willing to show them off upon request.

Also, the goals in this article maybe different from your goals, but I'm sure you'll follow similar methodologies to get where you want to go.

Speaking of goals, I mentioned it in the other articles, and I'll mention it here again. My car is used for autocross, therefore I want big torque as well as power out of the hole. Would I do things differently had I known what I know now? Nope.. I'm extatic with the results and I smile everytime I push the go pedal on my car.

Ok, now the quest for more power. In the previous article, I freed up the exhaust by adding headers and exhaust assembly. Now I need to further add to the mods in an attempt to flatten out the torque curve and increase the power output of my car for my intended application. At this point, the car felt wonderful with lots of grunt and go. It was actually baselined at 141 HP at the wheels at DPE (FWD)during the Dyno Days, and prior to the installation of the exhaust and headers it baselined at 121 hp, but the torque curves were fairly close to stock peaking at the same RPM.

Searcing for the right camshafts for the application proved harder than expected. I purchased a set of Cobb Tuning Mild cams from Lachute for "Big Bucks", and installed them in the car. Performance difference was not noticeable in my current state of mod.

Then I hunted down a company from VCR who designed camshafts for the SOHC Subaru engines, I installed those and the results were mixed. They freed up the breathing enough to produce the most power out of all the camshafts selected (yes there were more) but it was a constant battle with the CEL (misfire) because the idle was so rumbly.

What was needed was a compremise, something that would idle decently yet produce the appropriate torque curve that I needed for my sport. I consulted with a tuner that had links to Japan and he leveraged his connections and came up with a profile to test. We bought a set of blanks from a local parts supplier and proceded to have the cams ground according to the hybrid specifications. Results were fantastic.

Peak HP went up by approx 15 hp and over 26 hp at 6000 rpm, torque was increased by 10% across the board at all rpm ranges. No real drawbacks aside for the occasion CEL from the mildly lumpy idle, which was cured by raising the idle by 100 rpm.

It takes more than just lift and duration to create a profile that works best for the application, it's how much lift is created at which point in the cam and how long the intake and exhaust are kept opened, then there's the exhaust portion which has an overlap as well.

Now I had the NA power I was looking for, next step necessary, as shown by the dyno plot, was to smoothen out the intake to keep the engine pulling beyond redline.

As a matter of fact, the cams gave a strange sensation when driving at a constant throttle setting, as soon as you hit 3500 rpm, it's as if you pushed down on the accelerator another inch, the car would accelerate harder on it's own as the cams got into their efficiency range.

Note: These are the same cams that are currently in my car and they are Turbo Friendly, and they've been in for over 60000 Km...

Next Article: ECU Tuning, it's not the tool, it's the tuner! Make sure you know what to ask for, because you might just get it.

Enjoy!

Nuwan
01-30-2004, 12:38 AM
keep 'em coming Joe :-D

101rs
02-05-2004, 05:37 PM
nice write up Joe. they have all been great reads.
i wanted to know what u think of running cams on stock exhaust. i really want to avoid problem with the law this year that a exhaust system tends to attract

JoeT
02-05-2004, 06:11 PM
Hi Mike,

Putting cams on stock exhaust will net more torque gains in the mid and low rpm ranges, the gains up top will be less than if you were running a more open setup.

BTW: If you wanted more power and wanted to keep things quiet, you could use larger diameter headers, midpipe, and exhaust with resonator and a large chambered muffler.

It will be as quiet as stock and will yield the performance gains that you're looking for. They key is to use a chambered muffler like a DynoMax Super Turbo (less than 80 bucks).

http://www.dynomax.com/superturbo.stm

http://www.dynomax.com/images/SuperTurbo_cutaway.gif

http://www.dynomax.com/images/SuperTurbo_FlowComparisonChart.gif

Hope this helps.

rex555
02-07-2004, 10:53 AM
Do you have any specs on the cams or are they "top secret". Could the cams hve been ground with a little less duration so they wouldn't be so lumpy or would that have robbed too much hp.

The Dynomax Superturbo mufflers are a great bang for the buck but they do not last very long. They tend to rust out rather quickly.

JoeT
02-07-2004, 11:01 AM
Hi Erwin,

There's no real secret, I'll try to dig up the specs on the cams. The ones that JA sells are not real lumpy at all, as a matter of fact, it's almost as smooth as stock.

The big difference is in the lift and ramp, so the duration is a little longer on both the intake and exhaust, but the overlap is only increased by 1 or 2 %.

Measurements are taken at the industry standard of .050

Hang tight. I'll search through the archives.

Navigator
02-09-2004, 10:12 PM
Another great article, is there alot of benifit by doing work to the heads at the same time as the cams install? I am trying to gauge the amount of benifit (ie in Torque/Hp) there is in valves and springs and port and polishing.

Thanks

DonS
02-09-2004, 10:25 PM
Navigator wrote:
Another great article, is there alot of benifit by doing work to the heads at the same time as the cams install? I am trying to gauge the amount of benifit (ie in Torque/Hp) there is in valves and springs and port and polishing.

ThanksDitto. I'd like to hear the Suby angle on it too. I can tell you that back in my Datsun 2.8 days I spent a lot of time on the heads and intake while doing the inside. That is the time to do it and you can get some definite improvements. What I did with the builder was to give him lots of time and I took all the parts for cleaning, polishing, balancing, porting, polishing etc. I did the labour intensive work of blueprinting and polishing. I let shops do balancing and the tuner the assembly. Even stock parts benefit from better than spec assembly. With mods it gets even better and certainly better life.

I say do the heads, intake, TB and everything that comes off. make it better than new.

JoeT
02-10-2004, 06:56 PM
Hi Ivano / Don,

There's always benefits to be gained in porting and polishing heads. An engine is just a glorified air pump. The more efficient you can make the flow, the more power potential can be gained. But there's a point of deminishing returns, and it's driven by the $$$ vs power. Again, it depends on the application.

Example: (hypothetical)
If you don't change cams, and do a port and polish on the heads, the returns will be minimal, because the increased flow of the heads are not being used to the potential.

It all goes hand in hand, that's why the "Application" is the most important consideration.

Hope this helps.

DonS
02-10-2004, 07:39 PM
Diminishing returns is always a valid concern but the $$$ factor can be lessened if you have a friendly tuner. I was lucky and worked a deal where I would do all the running around to machine shops and parts pickup if I could save on delivery. I was given some pointers and allowed to do the port matching and polishing. That saved me a ton of money to get the full monty at almost a basic rebuild price + tuning. Balancing is cheap, porting and polishing is expensive.

I can't say what the extra work added up to in power since I did so much more at the same time. But what a difference it was overall. The gains from the extras might not be great considering what it would cost but I was lucky to offset much of that cost with my own labour. It was worth it I think.

And for wild ideas, it would be great if we had a club engine. We all pitch in to build it and it is funded mostly by the person that will be using it. Then after a swap is done we have a new project engine. And I vote we do this with a 2.5 :-)

JoeT
02-10-2004, 07:44 PM
Hey Don,

A club engine project is a great idea. Post it up in a separate column, and let's see what we can do.

Hummmmmm

10-08-2004, 02:11 PM
Geart info Joe,

I'm a nubie. I have a 2000 Legacy Gt, stock except for K&N airfilter. For a long time I've been considering mild mods to gain HP. I was pretty much settled on the cobb stage one cylinder head package untill I came upon your info. Cobb claims 25-35 HP increase with this and certain "other" mods.
In your experence, is this a bunch of hooy?

A reply from the great one would be much appcieated.
Lina.

JoeT
10-08-2004, 03:44 PM
25 - 35 Hp with the proper cams and headwork is more than possible, with the Cobb setup. But check out the price.

Also, note that on the dyno, the Legacy Phase II engine, power drops off considerably beyond 5500 rpm. If the measurement is taken at 6000 rpm then it's possible to show the 25 - 35 Hp gain.

Again, they are not mentioning "Peak" HP.. Their street performer cams are mild grinds and dont' do much for peak HP, but it does flatten out the torque curve a bit which stretches the hp higher near the top.

Hope this makes sense.

10-08-2004, 06:34 PM
Thanks for the reply. What's your opinion of the quality of the cobb camshafts? I understand they are welded. There was a recent thred saying they were a problem.
Thanks,
Linha

JoeT
10-08-2004, 09:45 PM
I never heard of problems with Cobb cams. BTW: Cobb doesn't make the cams, they are outsourced from a company in California.

They metalize and grind the cams, when done properly it usually possess good characteristics and lasts a long time.

The potential problems when welding material on hardened surfaces is:

1) Different stresses from differently heated surfaces
2) Potential hardness differences between surfaces
3) Potential warping due to different temperatures
4) Delamination
etc. etc. etc.

After welding new material to a camshaft, it has to be de-stressed and re-hardened as a unit. This allows the materials to work together and retain it's original harness. If there's a mistake during the process, many things are possible including the ones mentioned above.

Usually there's nothing wrong with adding material and grinding.

They probably do this to keep the base circle from getting too small (round area at the bottom of the lobe).

10-22-2004, 02:46 PM
What cam would you suggest for a stock 2000 Legacy GT?

JoeT
10-22-2004, 09:03 PM
Lina wrote:
What cam would you suggest for a stock 2000 Legacy GT?

It all depends on your budget and what you intend to do with your car.

Lots of people here are happy with their JA Cams for half the price of the Cobb Cams.

09-06-2005, 10:09 AM
an inquiry, I have been reading all the "zen's" and wanted to get an idea what the approx. cost would be for JA to install their cams and tune the ECU on an 04 RS. Not looking at doing it this year but next summer. (have time to save up $) Thanks :-)