Lack of "heel and toe"...

[paulneartarga]

Any tips/hints on how to work around it,or to get it to work?

I've been told I'm tall(and heavy,but thats another issue)and I can't get a smooth "heel and toe"downshift done.My leg does not fit in under the dash/steering wheel and I always end up "upsetting the car"by not being smooth enough on the brakes when doing a downshift/rev.

Currently I shift after braking is done,but that probably isn't going to be ideal during Targa.

[TrevorH]

I'm also very tall (and heavy), and due to space restrictions in most cars I had to do a lot of experimenting to get a heel toe method that worked for me.

With the length of my legs, I need to keep my heel on the floor, so I can't easily use the method of toe on the brake, heel on the bottom of the gas. Likewise, the geometry of most cars versus my size doesn't let me roll my foot over to use the side of my foot on the gas, while keeping the sole on the brake.

What I've ended up with is that when I brake I overlap both the brake and the gas with my foot "flat" over the space between the pedals, leaving on the edge of my foot on each pedal. Then I move my right knee left or right (keeping my ankle stiff) to control the relative force on each pedal. The proximity of the pedals, and the width of your shoe make all the difference here. I actually heel toe better in my old hiking shoes than I do in my Piloti driving shoes, just because of the difference in width.

Hopefully that will work for you.

[dubya_rx]

Big footed SPDA people unite!!

As Trev mentioned, you need to experiment to see what works best for you. Either a true heel-toe or a roll of the foot off the brake towards the gas.

I am not an expert, so I only heel-toe downshift at the maximum braking point. That way I have all my weight on the brake pedal and there is no "finesse" required on the brake. Just keep mashing the pedal and somehow rotate the foot over to the gas somehow.

I actually bent the gas pedal closer to the brake for this reason, and removed the "pivoting" motion of the gas pedal (hard to explain) so the gas pedal did not shift when I hit it with the side of my foot.

[Marsh]

Due a Youtube search.

You'll find dozens of videos showing different techniques. Beign 6', 215lbs with size 11 feet myselft I found the biggest secret is real driving shoes. The other secret is simply 'getr done'. It's not important what part of your foot, or ankle of that matter, you reach the gas pedal with, just that your reach it. I often rotate my ankle and blip the gas with the side or even laces area of my right shoe. I've even driven cars where the brakes had gone squishy and I used the ankle bone because that's as high as I could reach.

Trevor, your 'flat foot' technique is how most people start I think (myself included). But the problem is that the technique isn't flexible. If you change to a car with a different pedal position or if your brakes get weak and need more pedal travel then you won't be able to do it any more. Learn to move your right knee as close to the steering column as you have room for and then rotate your heel out to the right. If you can make enough room to pass your knee under the steering column then it's easy. Otherwise it will be uncomfortable but you can still do it.

[STeveD]

Size 12 EEE, I use a wider shoe that allows me to roll at the ankle easily onto the gas. Brake with ball of right foot, roll onto gas with right edge of foot.

Best mod done to my car was Fourstar welding an adjustable rod to the back of the brake pedal and a nut to the brake pedal arm. With that I can fine tune the brake pedal height

Even with master cylinder braces, stainless steel lines, etc. the STi's brake pedal still went far too low for my liking. Adjustability fixed that problem.

[nissannx]

What a great thread. Two years ago I started experimenting with rolling my foot onto the gas, because I simply couldn't figure out any way to heel-toe. Thought I was a failure at heel-toe until someone else said who cares, if it works. Practiced with the Versa this winter.
Good pedals also makes a difference - but it could just be the bling factor.

[TrevorH]

Marsh wrote:

Trevor, your 'flat foot' technique is how most people start I think (myself included). But the problem is that the technique isn't flexible. If you change to a car with a different pedal position [...] If you can make enough room to pass your knee under the steering column then it's easy. Otherwise it will be uncomfortable but you can still do it.

Quite right. To be fair, I've used all three methods and switch based on the car, shoe size, pedal positions, etc. In the 08 STI the driver space is roomy enough that I can use any method, however in the 2004 I could really only pull off the overlap due to space restrictions, and that sounds like what Paul needs to work around.

As for knee space, in the 04 STI, I (twice) turned off the ignition by hitting the key with my knee during a hard right turn. It's not fun to lose power steering, and acceleration, mid turn in traffic. Fitting my legs under the steering wheel rather than around it is luxury. :-D

[Sir-knight]

I'm not as tall as you paul but I am gifted with stature like the rest of the big guys. I put the ball of my foot high on the brake pedal and mash the gas with my heel as I downshift, some practice is needed to find where on the ball of the foot to put... for my my toes are actually over the arm of the pedal.

I've had good success practicing on the street with this, but under extreme braking on the track I haven't had enough practice to make it completely smooth, but I have gotten it to work several times.

I haven't been able to get the double clutch heel and toe though... that one just feels weird.

[paulneartarga]

FFS!My new heel and toe skills cost me first place at the first event of the year on Sat ARRRR! :-x


But on the other hand......losing first place got me got me stirred up for a fight on Sunday,event #2,....which resulted in catching FTD....on street tires!

And so starts another season on the Rock.