Autoslalom Workshop - Call for action, please

[JoeT]

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=154310&posted=1#post154310

This is where we propose all the new changes to the 2010 rules. If you don't put your 2 cents in, it won't be discussed.

No need to attend the workshop if you can't, but it would be nice if you could. If you can't attend the workshop, we'll present on your behalf.

At this time, please put forward your suggestions for 2010.

Thanks

[STeveD]

If we're going to use SCCA stock class PAX numbers, we use their stock class rules. e.g.: OE wheel size.

Don't want SCCA stock rules? Fine. Make our Stock PAX values half-way between SCCA Stock and CASC-OR SS PAX for that vehicle.

e.g.: SCCA Miata is ES, .818 PAX
Miata moves to CSS in CASC-OR with .832 PAX

Current CASC-OR rules, ES PAX changes to .825

-------------------

Or, non-stock wheel size = SS and just maximize for the class.

[BryceD]

I had written up a long reply in that thread, but really that isn't a thread for discussion, just additional items.

Here's my post anyway, because I don't want it to go to waste:

I like the idea of adopting SCCA rules. That keeps things consistent across North America, as well as hopefully making PAX more accurate.

Regarding street tires and r-comps in separate classes, my only worry is diluting the field with additional classes, when many classes have troubles filling to begin with. Now, I don't know the SCCA ruleset very well, would a street tire / r-comp class be inherent in adopting SCCA rules?

Regarding this item:



Item 3:
For pax or championship points, drivers must use the same car as they've used from the beginning of the season, or at the very least, use the same class car. If you switch classes, your pax and class points are counted as if it was your first event.

I know it's a stretch to believe, but I'm in favour of this rule :)

A great example of PAX not working as intended was Arris using a different car in the last provincial event. Arris even states that he exploited the changing cars rule to gain points he otherwise wouldn't have been able to do with his car. Obviously a MOD car that isn't at the class limit in terms of potential, will be at a PAX disadvantage compared to a stock car that is tweaked to the limits of the stock class. Who's choice was it to compete in a car that isn't at the class limit? Many other competitors who are driving cars not at the limits of its class don't have the option to drive someone elses car that is tweaked to be at the limit in its class.

The SCCA rules, and a more varied class system may well help make PAX more accurate, making the above a non-issue.

In terms of rookie classing, I understand that the intent is to convince local club only auto-xers to come out to regionals. Did CASC-OR find that club only auto-xers didn't want to come out because they would be uncompetitive?

As both a novice and rookie this season, I really enjoyed talking to some other novice drivers, and it was a nice idea to have something to battle for even though I wasn't at the top of either the PAX overall, or my class. It is discouraging as a novice though, to be pitted against drivers with potentially years of autox experience, who know how to exploit certain rules in order to win a rookie championship, which I thought was intended to provide an easing into the full regional championship.

Really what I'm saying is, the rookie championship is only a slightly better opportunity than the overall championship for novices, and that doesn't do much to entice novice drivers to regional auto-x.

Please don't take this as anything against Arris. He was just a fantastic example of my suggestions, but is a great guy and a great driver. I had a great time this year overall, and was lucky to do well in the rookie championship regardless.

[STeveD]

Well put, Bryce. I had no idea that they had done this to the "Novice" rules for this year.

You can take comfort in the fact that you carried SPDA in the Interclub Championship! ;-) You were almost a 1/3 of the total club points.

[BryceD]

Oh yeah, I'm not saying I didn't have a satisfying season! But with these points being brought up, I'm in a decent position to comment because I was both a novice and rookie.

I figured if the CASC-OR thread was for bringing up points of discussion, the SPDA thread would be for actually discussing some of those things, since if I'm not at the workshop, at least my thoughts would be heard through SPDA.

[JoeT]

That's what this thread is for. I'll bring up the points on our club's behalf.

[nitrowsb]

You had a great year Bryce as a true "Novice"! Arris, the "Rookie" that won the "Novice" title had about a season and a half of Autoslalom under his belt!

Congrats Bryce!

Trung (5th "Novice" 2005)

[BryceD]

Thanks Trung!

I was really happy with the season overall, and I don't blame Arris for expoiting any rule he could to win it. But if I had a say in it, I would restrict how easy it is to change cars and classes for championship points.

And with the rookie/novice side of it, although I still did well overall, I know of at least 1 other rookie & novice that didn't find it to be any better or easier to compete in than the normal championship. If it wasn't for the SPDA, specifically Joe and Andrew, she probably wouldn't have ever come back to another event with me!

And certainly I wouldn't have done nearly as well without all of your help in car setup, racing lines and tips!

[AndrewR]

Hey Bryce,

I cannot speak for Joe, but that is why I do this - to introduce people to fun in a fun no pressure manner.

I'll be at the meeting, so, I'll take everyone's input here too.

Looking forward to 2010!

[DouglasM]

AndrewR wrote:
Hey Bryce,

I cannot speak for Joe, but that is why I do this - to introduce people to fun in a fun no pressure manner.

Bryce,

I can personally attest to Andrew's comment. He got me in to all of this, even letting me co-drive his car for my first events. I have enjoyed almost every single moment since getting involved in the club and sport.

About the only two moments not particularly enjoyed were the very brief recce for the "Rally of the Short Pine" and coming out of turn 1 at MIR solely as a passenger behind the steering wheel.

Just beware the absolute truth that begins with "It's a slippery slope downhill..."; related to "speed costs money...". You know how the rest of that goes.

D.

[Cavemanrjc]

You had a great year Bryce as a true "Novice"! Arris, the "Rookie" that won the "Novice" title had about a season and a half of Autoslalom under his belt!


Season and a half?
try auto slalom director for TLMC. no ware near a novice. but rookie for provincials yes.

I was classed as a rookie as well but have 4 seasons under my belt. and Arris was quite experianced when i started.

So in short Rookies should be rookies. with no experiance

Congrats Bryce on how well you did as a novice against seasoned veterans playing the rule interpretation game to win anything they can.

So my input would be. rookies should be novices in the type of racing that it is. Club or Provincial its still auto x and = experience therefor not rookies after 1 season

[_sjd]

Yeah Arris started competing before me and I started in 2003.

[BryceD]

Any idea when and where this workshop will be taking place? I'd like to attend if I can make it.

[JoeT]

Workshop will be happening on November 14th in a hotel in Markham, the same Hotel that's being used for the Banquet.

Sheraton Parkway Hotel, November 14th, official schedule has not been sent out yet, as to when the workshops are, but considering how it was done the previous years, it would probably go like so:

10:00 - 12:00 Autoslalom / Solosprint / Race Workshops in various breakout rooms

12:00 - 1:00 Lunch
1:00 - 3:00 continued breakout sessions

[BryceD]

Ahh well that is pretty convenient to have it on the same day as the banquet. I should be able to make it out for the day. Thanks Joe!

[craigS]

If you can't attend the workshop, we'll present on your behalf.

Really? :-D

Just kidding ... although, depending on what gets scheduled when, I probably will not be at the Solo2 workshop.

As an aside, it sounds like it would be fairest if rookies (new to the sport) should be separated from novices (new to provincial-level competition), i.e., two distinct championships. (That's just MHO.)

[JoeT]

craigS wrote:

If you can't attend the workshop, we'll present on your behalf.

Really? :-D

Just kidding ... although, depending on what gets scheduled when, I probably will not be at the Solo2 workshop.

As an aside, it sounds like it would be fairest if rookies (new to the sport) should be separated from novices (new to provincial-level competition), i.e., two distinct championships. (That's just MHO.)


I think we agree to agree on that point.. LOL.. So no Sushi this year? We'll miss your presence.

[craigS]

You're on for sushi - but, as I'm working on the MCO Race School, I'll be at the race workshop if there's a conflict with the Solo2 workshop (as is usual).

[BryceD]

[AndrewR]

[_sjd]

[STeveD]