Amsoil Fuel Economy Thread

[STeveD]

Yes, another fuel economy thread. Why? Two of my Honda customers got back to me after they bought the ASM 0W20 formulation and told me they were saving 10% on gas after switching to the Amsoil. One of them was getting an extra 70km per tank!

Okay, I know that lower viscosities have less drag, but 10%?? This is a 1.5L Civic motor with a 45L tank and he normally goes 650km per tank. So he was now able to go to 720ish km.

I'm an experimenter at heart, and I don't recommend anything from personal experience unless I've tried it, so I used the test mule: The wife's 2003 Acura TL Type S. V6, 3.2L, 260hp, 91 octane minimum. 19mpg city, Rated for 29mpg hwy. (12.4L/100km, 8.1L/100km). Recommended oil viscosity is 5W20. This car has a phenomenally efficient and clean engine; oil doesn't start to darken in this car until it's near 6000km of use.

Typical use for my wife's car is some paved country roads, some congested highway, some small city / Mississauga driving. She's a tailgater, so brake taps in traffic aren't uncommon.

With Castrol 5W30 this car averages 10.0L/100km mixed driving. With Castrol 5W40 it averaged 10.6, but this also included mid-summer A/C usage. So, not so much higher than the 5W30.

Out came the summer Castrol 5W40 I was testing, in went the Amsoil 0W20 ASM. Top up the tank with Shell V-Power 91, and do a trip to the inlaws. Highway drive from Georgetown to Brantford, plus a couple of "city" errands. This was not cruising below the speed limit at any point. We passed a few cars. It wasn't aggressive, but it wasn't driving that would annoy people following me either.

8.96L/100km over 230km. Huh!

Okay, but that was MOSTLY highway on the weekend. With the next tank I ran an errand to Toronto with some morning traffic. Without the wife in the car, the driving was a bit more... assertive. Wife drives the car back and forth to work in Brampton, goes shopping, I go to a rally meeting in Cambride last night. So a lot lower percentage of highway.

8.95L/100km over 500km. Damn!

So, yeah! 1L savings every 100km! At the current price of 91, with her typical 450km/week, that's 4.5L saved or $5.00 a week.

Damn!

Add in that this oil is good for 40,000km or 1 year, and I'm also going to save about $80 in oil changes on top of the ~$240 in fuel savings.

Damn!

Okay, so the Civic guy wasn't crazy. 10% vs. 5W30. I have to run right now, but I'll try to find the rated viscosities of the Castrol I'm comparing it to.

The Amsoil ASM 0W20 is 49.1cSt at 40C, 9.0 cSt at 100C. -54C pourpiont.
The Amsoil SSO 0W30 is 56.6 cSt at 40C, 10.3 cSt at 100C. -51C pourpoint.
The Amsoil ASL 5W30 is 60.7 cSt at 40C, 10.8 cSt at 100C. -50C pourpoint.
The Amsoil XLF 5W30 is 58.2 cSt at 40C, 10.5 cSt at 100C, -45C pourpoint.

Not hugely different... But given that most turbo motors don't get up to 100C oil temperature in the winter anyway, and certainly not naturally aspirated... is 0W20 something Subie owners should consider for winter use?

I've run Motul 300V 0W20 in the STi during the winter and it had to be topped up a bit more than 5W30, but no noticeable problems such as idle noises or anything. Granted, my motor only had 36k km on it back then.. it wasn't a 200k km engine 2.2L with piston slap.

I wouldn't recommend a 0W20 for summer turbo use, but if you check page 2 of this file from the 2004 Subaru Impreza manual, 0W20 is recommended below 40 deg C.

http://ken-gilbert.com/wrx/STi_Manual/01.%20GENERAL%20INFORMATION/09.%20PERIODIC%20MAINTENANCE%20SERVICES/03.%20Engine%20Oil.pdf


The proper viscosity helps vehicle get good cold
and hot starting by reducing viscous friction and
thus increasing cranking speed.

I can't say it's the same for the newer models, but the 2004 accomodates 0W20.

I chose to use it in the STi years ago because I was doing winter slaloms. So when you're done your marshalling stint, your engine and oil are ice cold. The 0W20 flows better than 5W30 when you start your run. For me, and what I did with the car, I always opted for thinner oil in winter.

Remember, a 20 degree temperature change is far more significant an effect on viscosity than going from a 0W20 to a 5W30 if you check the numbers above.

What I found REALLY shocking was that this Amsoil formulation was having THAT MUCH of an effect on fuel economy. I was expecting 1% - 3% savings from what I'd read. Not 10%.

So if you're a fuel economy nazi, consider the ASM formulation for winter.

[Chris_Martin]

Steve,

interesting facts.....

in one model year of the Ford escape, the rated fuel mileages were drastically lower.

Digging really deep into specs you'll find one year they required 5w30, and the next 0w20.....yielded about the same differences you are experiencing.


same thing with all the "energy conserving" rated oils. They are putting the viscosity right at the bottom of the viscosity, and they get better fuel mileage

[nissannx]

Hmmm. How much horsepower would it free up? I'm not so interested in mileage! Do you use this year round in the STi?

[oldguy]

Frank,

Use peanut oil in your car if you want to free
up excess SQUIRREL POWER !!!

I kill me, I really do ;-)

[STeveD]

Frank wrote:

How much horsepower would it free up? I'm not so interested in mileage! Do you use this year round in the STi?


I used it as a winter oil only in the STi. As shown below, it's almost a 5W30 weight.

Yes, it SHOULD free up HP in the NX1600. I suppose that the benefit is based on how tight the tolerances are. We're probably seeing huge benefit in the Honda products because the tolerances are designed for it. I'm not sure how much benefit you'd see in the NX1600, but you can borrow my Performance Box (if you don't already have GPS data) and do HP estimation runs before and after...?



oldguy wrote:

Use peanut oil in your car if you want to free
up excess SQUIRREL POWER !!!


Between Chris' corn-car and Frank's peanut car, SPDA is turning more Eco-Friendly than the Prius forum!



Chris_Martin wrote:

same thing with all the "energy conserving" rated oils. They are putting the viscosity right at the bottom of the viscosity, and they get better fuel mileage


For most of the 5W30's on the market, yes, that's the case. But for the Amsoil 0W20, it's actually almost into 5W30 territory.

http://www.infineum.com/information/api-viscosity-2004.html

Low shear rate (100C) could be 5.6 to 9.2 and it's a 9.0. At 9.3 it would be a 30 for the high weight.

High shear rate (150C) could be 2.6 to 2.8 and it's a 2.8. At 2.9 it would be a 30 for the high weight.

[warwagon]

I've seen consistant 50kms MORE per tank from Royal Purple over Castrol Syntec using the same weight oils.

[nissannx]

oldguy wrote:
Frank,

Use peanut oil in your car if you want to free
up excess SQUIRREL POWER !!!

I kill me, I really do ;-)

Probably kill me too, if I listened to everything you said!
According to this 2005 document, peanut oil prices are dropping so it might be worth considering.

I've been running Mobil 1 for so long in this car - I'll keep reading/researching. Amsoil is better. I've seen that many times.

[STeveD]

There's nothing really wrong with Castrol or Mobil 1. They meet at least the minimum SM specs. Keep them topped up and they'll protect a motor adequately. But you're talking about products priced to beat the competition at Walmart. They do the average consumer fine, but they're maybe not the right choice for

Will the average consumer buy a bottle of Amsoil or Royal Purple at Canadian Tire when it's $15 next to the $9 bottle of Castrol? Let alone a can of Motul 300V esther synthetic for $25 a litre. No. Not if someone doesn't educate them on the differences, including the long drain intervals.

Our club price on Royal Purple at JRP is very good. My only issue is that they won't tell you much about what is in their oils. You have to do VOA's to find out what's in there. The RP XPR oils have fantastic zinc and phosphorous levels for competition.

Whereas Amsoil will tell you the target Zinc, Phosphorous, Moly, TBN, Calcium, and ... any important additive. They're up front about it. Saves me time in selecting the right oil for someone's application.

So could the 0W20 free up a few Squirrels while still providing excellent protection? Most probably! The viscosity is nearly 5W30 level anyway. My only hesitation is that you have an older motor which was probably designed for 5W30 with a lot of miles on it. So I'm not sure that you'd see the same benefit that we're seeing on the Honda products. But if you're willing to experiment, it would be an interesting test!

[alf]

To confirm what Steve is saying, check all car manufacture. Check back few years ago, all car had a 10w30 oil recommendation. To meet one of the consumption target few years ago, everyone move to 5w20 or 5w30. That had nothing to do about oil quality or more quality, it was a only for better fuel millage.

That gave them about 1-2mpg or about .4-.8l/100km

[STeveD]