Need some quick input - re: fender bender

[Daniel]

Lisa was recently involved in a minor accident on the 407 - she rear ended someone (both drivers distracted by another, existing accident). Lis claims that she was no where near the guy in front but when she turned back from briefly looking at the accident at the side of the road the other guy was already hard on the brakes avoiding the guy in front of him.

I realize she will always be the one at fault - given she was the one who rearend the other car, but she ended up being charged with "following too close" (2 demerit points). Cop already on site claims he didn't see the accident happen, so apparently this was just his automatic reaction.

questions: Is that the correct charge? Is it normal that she would be charged in a case like this? is it worth fighting? And finally, can she ever end up being charged with something worse? i.e. does she have anything to lose - other than her time...

Neither of us has any experience with this stuff so any input/insight would be appreciated.

Cheers!

[nitrowsb]

Don't know if I'm wrong or right but the other charge could be careless driving which is by far worse!

I do think the charge is right and is the most minor of any other charges she could charged with. Fighting tickets in my mind would be only worth it if it will save insurance hikes in the long run and or license suspensions or employment related issues. I don't think it's that serious of a charge if her records are clean , although the only thing that has increased my premiums are speeding tickets...big tickets!

She is ok though?

[BGregovski]

The greater charge would be careless driving section 130 HTA which would be $325 and 6 demerrit points. Though it may be the more correct charge, this is where the officers discretion can benifit the person charged. For careless - driving with undo care and attention - doesn't fit 100% she was not driving in that manor. Following to close - she just didn't have enough reaction time or distance to stop ( other car panic stopped) fits a little better. The lesser charge is 2 demerrit points and $110. Unfortunate thing is insurance might look at them the same ie moving violation.

So.. is it the correct charge - yes
yes its normal she be charge in this situaton
only you know if its worth fitting
in very rare situations the charge can be increased (very uncommon) - actually in over 10 yrs of being traffic court I've never seen it happen

BG

[STeveD]

If it's the same car that was in front before she glanced away, and when you looked back forward, then yes, following too close is typical.

If the driver from another lane made a sudden lane change to avoid their own impact and she then rear ended him, he might be charged or there might be no charges.

But I assume that the charge was laid based on their own statements.

[Cavemanrjc]

The guy that hit jenny from behind was charged with careless (court in Feb)
The careless charge I got way back when, 10 years ago took 7 years to come off my driving record as they class it as a major offense same as impaired.

IMO I would take the following to close

[04turbowagon]

One of the best defenses for a rearender is to say you sneezed. It's an involuntary action which closes your eyes for an instance. You will still be at fault, but they can't charge you with anything.

Of course it depends what was said to the cop previously.

[DougPhillips]

Charge is correct but it s always worth your time to go to court and ask the prosecutor to plead guilty to a lesser charge. It s really the points you want to get dropped for insurance reasons. If the officer does not object (unlikely as he did not see anything) they will likely plead you down to save court time.

[cliff96]

"It s really the points you want to get dropped for insurance reasons."

Your insurance company doesn't care about the number of points you or anyone has. This is common misinformation the police, prosecutors and ticket fighters will give you to get you off of their backs. The only people that cares about points is the MTO.

The application for auto insurance in Ontario does not ask you about the number of points you have - thus points are not used as a ratings variable for your insurance.

The application can be found at the bottom of this page:
http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/bulletins/autobulletins/2003/a-07_03.asp

Your insurance only cares about the class of conviction, ie. minor, major, criminal. Tickets are rated for 3 years after the date of conviction, (not the date of the offense).

At-fault accidents are rated for 6 years (with some companies it is longer then that).

All insurance companies will use the fault determination rules to determine which driver should be held responsible for the accident, the rules are legislated and a copy can be found here:
http://www.ibc.ca/en/car_insurance/documents/brochure/on-fault-determination-rules.pdf


I would agree with Doug in fighting the ticket - worst case you will come out the same, best is the cop doesn't show or has no notes=no conviction, or you could plead to a lessor charge and possibly get a reduced fine - but don't let them play the no points & same fine game, it doesn't do you any good unless you have a bunch of other convictions and are about to have your license suspended.


Hope this helps in shedding some light on the black box of insurance